Post Office Inquiry: Weeks 5 And 6 – Recap
Following a short break, the Post Office Inquiry resumed Phase 7 hearings on Monday 4 November and these concluded on Wednesday 13 November. Here is a summary of the evidence heard during the final two weeks.
Monday 4 November
Simon Recaldin – Remediation Unit Director at Post Office Ltd (POL)
Simon Recaldin’s evidence was initially scheduled for one day, but spilled into a second day and covered a variety of topics. Mr Recaldin is the Director of the Remediation Unit at POL, which was previously known as the Historical Matters Unit. He has been in this position since January 2022 and his role involves managing various matters, including the delivery of the Overturned Convictions redress process, the Horizon Shortfall scheme, the criminal appeals process and consequent civil liability and redress issues.
During his oral evidence, he was taken through questions relating to compensation, the Horizon shortfall scheme, overturned convictions and the appeals mechanism. He ended his evidence by making a statement noting that behind every person is a journey that they have been on, and extending his apologies to all affected.
Tuesday 5 November
Sarah Munby – former Permanent Secretary at the Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy
Sarah Munby was the Permanent Secretary of the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) from July 2020 to February 2023. She is now the Permanent Secretary of the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology (DSIT).
Ms Munby was asked various questions, including about Henry Staunton, the former Chair of POL, who had accused her of telling POL to slow down compensation. She made clear in her evidence that she “never told Mr Staunton directly or indirectly, expressly or by implication, that Post Office should stall on compensation or otherwise delay or reduce compensation payments to sub postmasters. I did not say anything that could sensibly have been understood to convey that implication”.
Wednesday 6 November
Kevin Hollinrake MP – former Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the Department of Business and Trade; former Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy
Kevin Hollinrake MP is the Conservative MP for Thirsk and Malton. He was previously Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the Department of Business and Trade between October 2022 and July 2024. As part of his role, he was responsible for leading the government’s action on redress for SPMs and post office reform.
Before his evidence began, the Chair made a sad announcement to note that yet another core participant had died. Carol Riddell, a former SPM for East Boldon, sadly passed away without receiving full compensation.
Carl Creswell – Director of Post Office Policy and Business Engagement in the Department for Business and Trade
Carl Creswell is the Director of Post Office Policy and Business Engagement at the Department of Business and Trade, a position he has held since April 2019. Mr Creswell was questioned about the various redress schemes that have been established to compensate postmasters affected by the Horizon scandal.
In particular, he was challenged about the glacial pace at which compensation has been delivered to postmasters. He was also questioned about the eligibility of employees and assistants for the redress schemes. Mr Creswell confirmed that the new ministerial team are focused on closing any gaps in the schemes, and that this is something that the government are considering.
Thursday 7 November
Lorna Gratton – Shareholder Non-Executive Director of Post Office Ltd; UK Government Investments Official
Lorna Gratton is a Director at UK Government Investments and currently sits on the Board of POL as the Shareholder Non-Executive Director. She was asked a variety of questions, including about the proposal of giving SPMs a fixed settlement offer of £600,000. She explained that the reason DBT wanted to put this policy in place was to ensure that there was a process where Claimants who did not want to interact with POL, would be able to get a quicker remedy. However, she accepted that this would come at the cost of avoiding giving SPMs proper disclosure and legal advice.
Sir Alex Chisholm KCB – former Chief Operating Officer and Permanent Secretary for the Cabinet Office
Sir Alex Chisholm KCB was appointed Permanent Secretary of BEIS in September 2016 and remained in this position until April 2020, when he was appointed as Chief Operating Officer for the Civil Service. He was asked questions about compensation and settlement of the High Court case.
Friday 8 November
Gareth Thomas MP – Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the Department of Business and Trade
Gareth Thomas MP has been the MP for Harrow West since 1997. He was appointed Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the Department for Business and Trade on 9 July 2024. He was asked questions about the cost of legal representation for some of the compensation schemes, as well as whether the government were prioritising delivering prompt compensation rather than have it be full and fair; something that Mr Thomas denied.
Charles Donald – Chief Executive Officer of UK Government Investments
Charles Donald has been the Chief Executive Officer of UK Government Investments since March 2020 and was asked a range of questions in relation to this role, including about the delay in appointing sub-postmaster Non-Executive Directors to the board, and the use of legal privilege on documents.
Monday 11 November
The Rt. Hon. Jonathan Reynolds MP – Secretary of State for the Department of Business and Trade
Jonathan Reynolds MP is the Labour MP for Stalybridge and Hyde and the current Secretary of State for Business and Trade. He was asked questions about the future of the Post Office as well as redress; specifically, whether he believed the government were prioritising value for money (particularly in relation to legal costs) where claimants cannot claim for legal costs until an offer was made.
The Rt. Hon. Kemi Badenoch MP – former Secretary of State for the Department of Business and Trade
Kemi Badenoch MP, the current Conservative Party leader, came to give evidence given her previous role as Secretary of State for the Department of Business and Trade from February 2023 to July 2024. She was asked questions about compensation and redress, as well as the dismissal of Henry Staunton. She explained that “as a politician, it is not enough to be doing the right thing; it is important to be seen to be doing the right thing. Perception matters too, otherwise you lose trust.”
William Paul Patterson – Director of Fujitsu Services Limited
William Paul Patterson is the Director of Fujitsu Services Limited. He provided evidence to the inquiry in Phase 4 and returned for Phase 7 to address two topics: (1) the current state of Horizon and the use of Horizon data in actions against postmasters, and (2) redress/compensation.
In his evidence, Mr Patterson accepted that Fujitsu’s failings had been substantial, and that they had contributed to a miscarriage of justice on an enormous scale. Mr Patterson also accepted that there continue to be errors and defects within Horizon, but he said that it is an old system that is “end of life” and that there should be a new system in place.
In relation to Fujitsu’s reluctance to support police investigations into discrepancies, Mr Patterson did not accept that this was demonstrative of a breakdown in the relationship with POL. He explained that it was difficult for Fujitsu to provide witness evidence because some of the systems operated by POL, including the network and pin pads, which are separate from Horizon, may cause some of the difficulties experienced by postmasters.
In relation to compensation, Mr Patterson was vague. He confirmed that he would speak to government about how Fujitsu might contribute to an existing redress scheme, but said that he could not provide more detail.
Tuesday 12 November & Wednesday 13 November
Dame Sandra Dawson and Dr Katy Steward – Governance experts
The Inquiry concluded its evidence by hearing from Dame Sandra Dawson and Dr Katy Steward, two witnesses that the Inquiry had asked to provide a report on corporate governance. The witnesses were taken through their analysis and findings set out in their two reports.
Conclusion of Phase 7
The evidence for Phase 7 ended with Counsel to the Inquiry noting that there were new witness statements from Phases 1 – 7 that would be ‘read’ into the evidence at the Inquiry, without the witnesses who wrote the statements giving oral evidence. However, the Inquiry acknowledged that the evidence in these statements is untested and they are mindful of this.
This now concludes the evidential hearings for the Post Office Inquiry. The only outstanding item is for Core Participants to provide the Inquiry with their closing submissions in relation to Phase 5 – 7, ahead of oral closing submissions on 16 and 17 December 2024.
The Crime Team at Hodge Jones & Allen have the privilege of representing a number of SPM’s as Core Participants in the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry. The Civil Liberties & Human Rights Team and Dispute Resolution Team also represent SPM’s in respect of compensation claims. If you, or anyone you know, is a victim of the Post Office Scandal please call us now on 0330 822 3451 or email our legal experts at postofficeclaims@hja.net.